Debden 2002, Pt II

THEN: Looking southerly at Mustangs in front of 334's dispersal headquarters being run up by the chiefs prior to a "show". The aircraft in the foreground (QP-O) belongs to 334's commander, Maj. Louis H. "Red Dog" Norley, Jr. February 1945. (Edward Nelson via Garry L. Fry)

THEN: May 1944. Arguably the most flamboyant "character" in the annals of the 4th Fighter Group, Lt. Ralph Kidd Hofer of Salem, Mo. flew with the group from September 1943 until his death in combat on July 2, 1944. A former Golden Gloves boxer, Hofer scored his first victory on his first mission! "Kidd" went on to tie (with Jim Goodson) as the 4th's top-ranking ace of all time with 15 aerial and 14 ground victories. Here he taxis his famous P-51B Salem Representative southward along the eastern 334 peri-track. Check out the whitewall tires! The North-South runway is the darker area just beyond the Mustang. Photo looking westerly. (Zigler)

And NOW: Phil Johnys (right) and I survey the eastern 334 perimeter track during our walk-around of the 334 area. Hofer's Salem Representative was just behind us on this very peri-track when the "Then" photo above was shot. The E-W and N-S runway intersection is directly behind my hat. Photo looking southerly. (Winefordner)

And NOW (again): As Ralph Hofer and Salem Representative taxied on a little further down the 334 peri-track, seen here at the extreme left of the frame, he would have come upon this intersection with the E-W parallel taxiway. The E-W runway is located just on the other side of the trees on the right. Sometimes kites departing from the West runway would form up for 2-ship takeoffs on this taxiway and in the (formerly) mowed grass where the trees are now on the right; this was during dry conditions, of course. During damp conditions, the planes would simply go all the way down this peri-track (heading away from us) to the beginning of the West runway for mag checks and takeoff. Photo looking easterly along the E-W parallel taxiway.

THEN: December 1943. P-47 Thunderbolts with 108 gallon "babies" form up to depart from the West runway. Photo looking northerly from the top of 334's hangar. Notice the distant perimeter track (with the Jugs coming towards us) - this is the E-W parallel I talked about in the preceding photos. (Grover Hall via Garry Fry)

And NOW: Same area looking northwesterly from the new rapelling tower. The West runway runs off to the distance. The 334 hangar is just outside the frame to the left. Notice the fenceline (not there in WWII), and the mother pushing the baby stroller (pram) through the gate, on the exact spot the mighty P-47s were shaking the ground in the "Then" picture above. Up until a few years ago, visitors to this station could get on the airfield unescorted, even though the property was still owned by the Ministry of Defence. To keep the curious out of the very active Carver Barracks, the current name for the site, a perimeter fence, as seen here, was built around the main building areas. While planning for my own visit, I found out that the entire area, buildings and airfield, are now strictly off limits without prior permission. Fortunately, the current leadership of Carver Barracks are very proud of their heritage, and with 6 months "warning" of my visit, everything went very smoothly for us as you can readily see by these pages (by the way, all these photos are about 1/4 of the shots I took).

THEN: November 1944. The 4th Fighter Group's first 2-seat P-51 conversion for Operational Training Unit duties, WD-2 - 43-12193 (War Weary), has just cleared the fence while landing on the East runway (10). This kite was later painted overall red with light blue trim in Spring 1945. Gaw-dee! (Joe Sills via Garry Fry)

And NOW: The same spot also looking northerly. On our last day, RSM Tony Ballans asked me if there was anything else we would like to see. Well, since you asked . . . There were several "Then and Now" shots (such as this one) which I had forgotten (gasp!) to take on the previous two days. So, we loaded up with a driver in one of their vehicles, and went around getting the shots I needed to complete the photographic tour. This is a typical scene . . . we drove around, I said "Stop", and we all got out and I ran to the appropriate "Then and Now" position. When we got back to Tony's office, he was good enough to call a friend of his at Bassingbourn since we wanted to see that famous station (also military controlled - still) as well. Thanks again, Tony!

And NOW (again): After taking the first "Now" picture above, I handed Sam my camera, then I ran up the East runway some for this photo . . . notice 334's hangar on the horizon to the right of the runway . . . you have two "blobs" of trees, then the big flat hangar. (Winefordner)

Looking northerly along Runway 35. Notice the prominent "hump" effect due to the sloping southern half of the airfield. Photo taken near the runway threshold. The technical site (buildings) are to our right, and 336's dispersal area is to our left - both out of the picture frame. Elder Street is behind us.

THEN and NOW: The Cross Keys Hotel in nearby Saffron Walden was a favorite hangout for men of the Eagle Squadrons and 4th Fighter Group. I would have put a "Then" shot here, but the building has hardly changed since the war. We had several meals here during our stay. It's over 600 years old, but the food was great!

THEN and NOW (above and below): The Rose & Crown was also a favorite hangout when the men came to Saffron Walden . . . fire gutted the place post-war, and as you can see, it was rebuilt with a few changes. A Boots Pharmacy now occupies the 1st (bottom) floor, and this is where I got my Debden film developed! (Old photo Leroy Nitschke via Garry Fry)

THEN: January 1944. Taxiing southward on the western side of the 334 parking "loop", P-47D 42-8644 QP-U "Lilliput" is about to turn left onto the East-West parallel taxiway. Photo looking easterly as these Thunderbolts make their way to the West Runway (28). (Leroy Nitschke via Garry Fry)

And NOW: The same intersection as seen from the East-West parallel peri-track. The hardstand in the "Then" photo above is to our immediate left in this shot. It's mostly grass now. Sam Weinfordner and Sgt. Phil Johnys stand by our P-47, I mean, uh . . . rental car. The North-South runway, mainly hidden by the tall grass, runs left to right in this view. It joins the taxiway right at Sam's shoulders. 334's hangar can be seen just above and to the right of the car. Photo looking easterly.

(Above) Inside Edward Tetlow's barn. This is a Hamilton-Standard propeller blade from a 4th Fighter Group P-51 which crashed through the Debden fenceline. It wasn't until years later that Edward found it deep in the soil on his property while removing a tree! (Winefordner)

(Above) The most expensive airfield brick in the world, and it's all mine, finally! All the fellow 4th FG buffs I had talked to who had already made the pilgrimage to Debden all mentioned getting a brick or two to take home. Even if they would have, I didn't want somebody to give me an extra one, I wanted to get my own! Several of the 2-ship parking bays are still there, or at least mostly there, as are several brick gun emplacements, etc. As I studied my photos in preparation for the trip, it looked like the two brick revetments/parking bays for 336 were still intact (they are) - the ends of the U-shaped revetments had brick retaining walls . . . that's where my brick would come from . . . and here it is! The triangular shaped "wall" behind me is located on the south 336 bay. This brick and many other bits and pieces I stuffed into my pockets are sitting in my studio today. (Winefordner)

THEN: View to the north, showing a P-47D (VF-V bar) running up in 336's south 2-ship brick bay. Notice the photographer's shadow to the right of the image. That guy was standing on top of the revetment wall just behind me in the photo above this one . . . Debden mechanics loved to get up on these bay walls as their planes departed and returned - what a view!! (via Hoey)

And NOW (again): Southwesterly view of, again, the southernmost 336 parking bay. The P-47 in our "then" photo above was at the far end of the bay in this shot. My brick came from the triangular shaped wall visible to the left of the tall tree. This shot was taken from an earthen wall made sometime in the mid to late 1990s. Don't know why the Army put it here, but if you're curious, that's why the elevated view from this location.

THEN: Aerial view looking northerly at the northern 336 parking "loop". There were two such loops by 336's dispersal shacks. For the three "Now" shots below, I want you to first notice the parking bay with the two P-51s at the left (western) edge of the loop. For the third picture, notice the light-toned sidewalk (with a "kink" in it) in the lower left hand corner in this photo. Now, let's compare . . . (USAF)

And NOW: Looking southwesterly from the northern part of the parking loop seen in the "Then" picture above. The two P-51Ds were parked in the bay to the right in this view. Also notice the inner part of the loop to our left in this photo. What used to be mowed grass is now covered with tall brush and trees. While the "floor plan" of this and most other parts of Debden's airfield areas are remarkably intact, the trees and heavy brush here were a big surprise as good aerials I have, taken in 1994, show no growth in this area. However, the thrill was no less . . . !

And NOW (again): Southwesterly view of the sidewalk remnants from the southwest corner of the "loop" seen in the "Then" photo above. Notice the growth pattern in the far parts of the sidewalk follows the "kink". The sidewalk led to the small grouping of buildings (long gone, unfortunately) which made up the 336 dispersal "complex".

A small group of pilots and admin/intel folks stand outside one of the 336 dispersal shacks mentioned above. The sharp-eyed among you will have already noticed Jim Goodson (2nd from left), Don Gentile (far right, wearing the British life jacket), and Johnny Godfrey (tall man facing us wearing sunglasses). This whole area is now just brush and trees. (G. Weckbacher via Hoey)

THEN: April 11, 1944. On the day of General Eisenhower's visit to Debden to present Col. Blakeslee and Capt. Gentile with the DSC, "Ike" was treated to a demonstration of the Mustang's firepower at the firing butts near the 334 hangar. Photo looking southeasterly. (Leo Schmidt via Garry Fry)

NOW: Looking northerly and down on the site of the firing butts from the newly-installed rapelling tower used to train the modern day troops. The building holding sand for the butts is long gone, but the concrete pads are still there as you can see. Today they sometimes use this as a heli-pad. The 334 hangar is about 90 degrees to my left in this shot. In the middle distance is the beginning (approach end) of the west runway (28). Just beyond the runway is a post-war shooting range installed when Debden trained Military Policemen.

THEN: Spring 1944. Assistant Crew Chief Sgt. Jerome Byrge (left), and Crew Chief SSgt. Paul Fox change the plugs on Capt. Nick Megura's P-51B ILL WIND, 43-6636, QP-N. This plane was lost on 5-9-44 when Lt. Vernon A. Burroughs bailed out southwest of St. Dizier, France. He was a guest of the German government for the rest of the war. Photo looking southeasterly. (J. Byrge via Garry Fry)

And NOW: Same view, but the "Then" shot above was taken standing on the hardstand's cinderbag revetment wall, which gives it the elevated perspective. The cinderbag wall is still there, by the way - see the photo right below this one. This hardstand is located on the westerly side of the big taxiway loop which goes around the north side of Runway 35.

THEN: January 1945 - last winter season for the 4th FG at Debden. This eastward view shows the big taxiway loop which goes around the north end of Runway 35. Much of 334 was dispersed along this big loop. The runway, partially hidden by snow, is in the center of the "loop". (L. Nitschke via Garry Fry).

And NOW: This is the same junction of the peri-track and the beginning of Runway 17 as in the above picture, except a little closer. In this view to the east I am standing on the peri-track roughly in front of the second-closest P-51D seen in the "Then" photo above. The beginning of Runway 17 can be seen to the right. The hardstand on which the two Mustangs are sitting in the "Then" photo is still mostly there, but spare tires now grace the exact spots the "Fifty-Ones" were sitting. This is the place (notice the tire barricades) that the current Debden Kart Club races go-karts every so often. In my early planning for this trip, I posted a notice for any kind of "help" they could give me on their website, and one gentleman, Paul Wiggins, responded enthusiastically. We corresponded often, and still do, and Paul was instrumental in getting me in touch with Edward Tetlow. Thanks again, Paul, and stop in and say "hi" to Edward for me next time you go karting!

After taking the shot above this one, I continued walking past the runway and then turned southward, following the "loop". After a few hundred feet of walking southward, I turned around and shot this picture, which looks northerly along the peri-track. The 334 squadron line shacks and "east side" parking spaces were to the right.

While driving (taxiing) around the airfield in my rental car, I had the presence of mind to pick up my camera and snap off a shot. Here we are going south along the eastern "leg" of 335's big triangular-shaped main dispersal area (see photo below). The "inner" part of the triangle is to the right. The beginning of 336's southwestern parking area is down a little further at the group of trees on the right. The N-S runway roughly parallels our course here, and is located (but not visible) at the extreme left of this shot.

THEN: April 1945. Looking northwesterly at the 335th Fighter Squadron "triangle" parking area. In the photo above this one, I'm driving towards us on the perimeter track to the right in this picture. (Francis Grove via Garry Fry)

And NOW: Looking northwesterly at the same "triangle" area. The PSP and wood matting parking spots are long gone, of course, but one 2-ship bricked revetment bay remains relatively intact on the southern leg of the triangle (see two photos below). The modern day "Debden Radar" in the distance serves nearby Stansted Airport. This radar facility was not here during the war.

THEN: February 1943. South-southeasterly view of the 335 triangle from the north end. The parking bay featured in several shots above can be seen in the distance at the upper right of this photo. In the foreground, Spitfire AV-V sits in the parking bay at the north "apex" of the triangle. Notice the old Eagle Squadron codes still on the Spitfires, which were simply repainted with the U. S. national insignias over the RAF roundels upon the group's transfer to the USAAF in Sept 1942. It wasn't until April 1943 that the group was assigned the QP - WD - VF squadron codes - beginning with the P-47 Thunderbolts. Although the 4th flew it's last Spitfire mission on April 10th, no Spits carried the "new" 8AF codes. (Don Young via Garry Fry)

And NOW: Again overlooking the 335 triangle area from the north - 59 years later. The semi-crumbled and grassed-over remainder of the northern wall of the parking bay featured in the "Then" photo above can be seen in the far right foreground here. This shot was taken outside of the bay and closer to the "corner" of the triangle. Compare the distant parking bay at the upper right with the older photo.

And THEN again: Here's an easterly view of, once again, the northern apex of the 335 parking "triangle". The triangle's northernmost brick parking bay is in the foreground. Squadron commander Maj. George Carpenter is stepping into his new P-51 in this late February 1944 snapshot. Notice the half wiped off frost on the wings. The place WD-I occupies here was the usual parking spot favored by Col. Don Blakeslee. In fact, the closer P-47 appears to be Col. Don's old WD-C. I could not resist doing a small oil painting based on this photo. See it here. (via Hoey)

The approach/departure radar serving nearby Stansted airport mentioned in one of the photos above is located on the grounds of the airfield and is accessed via this gate located along the western perimeter. Photo looking northeasterly. (Winefordner)

(Above) A simple candid photo of Phil Johnys and me standing on 334's perimeter track discussing "back then - right here", but one that summarizes the whole trip for me, really. Here I am standing on Debden airfield, a long held dream; we were blessed with great weather the whole week we were there; I enjoyed generous access to the facilities through the selfless Sgt. Phil Johnys and RSM Tony Ballans, and last but not least I had a friend along to take photos too! (Winefordner)

In an above picture, we see P-47D Thunderbolt Lilliput taxiing along the 334 perimeter. This shot shows the pilot's view as he was about to turn left onto the east-west parallel taxiway. I don't think he had a rental car in his way back then, though!

Keith Braybrooke, Edward Tetlow and I (pointing) compare period photographs. This was Don Gentile's corner hardstand, where the famous P-51B Mustang Shangri-La was regularly parked. The "mound" in the near background was not there during the war, but beyond the mound are trees which were there - the 336 FS dispersal huts were located at the treeline. (Winefordner)

Beginning of the West (28) runway. Notice the "half loop", which was attached to the left side of the start of each runway for jeeps, flagmen, ambulances, etc. There are many shots taken from the tower and 334's hangar which show aircraft forming up here, at the start of this runway, just before making their takeoff runs.